The problem is that outside the field of mathematics, virtually nothing in the world can be 100% proven or disproven. However, that does not give us the right to carte blanche believe anything we want.

When it comes to God, there is very little evidence for and very much evidence against his existence, so logically the reasonable thing to believe is that he does not exist. Naturally, if new evidence ever comes to light, our beliefs will have to be re-examined.

People often get confused between theories and facts. In mathematics, theories really are facts. In the rest of science, the prevailing theory is really “the best idea we’ve had yet.” That evolution happens is a fact because you can watch it happen to fruit flies and such. However, it’s a theory that evolution is how human beings got here.

Scientists believe that humans evolved because it’s the best idea they’ve had yet: it makes sense, it fits the facts, there’s plenty of evidence, etc. Still, as mentioned above, if new evidence comes to light we will have to re-examine our opinions.

But that’s no reason to just give up and say “I have no idea” because there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation, and ignoring that explanation (i.e. evolution) is silly.

By the way, upwards of 70% of scientists are atheists: Leading scientists still reject God

‘Now, lets get the first objection out of the way — yes they claim knowledge, they may “Say” theory – however the moment you argue this point that theory suddenly loses all flexibility, that so called “theory” suddenly and without warning becomes “fact” and they hold it in front of you like a scepter – beating you over the head with their “theory”.’

I could not agree more. Especially when there are assumptions made to organize said theory. Well said Capolan!

Most all of the scientist that I know, went from some level of belief in God, to some level of atheism (or agnostism), then back to a deeper belief in God than they originally had in the begining. My theory is that as we gain knowledge then understanding. The gaining knowledge period is when the atheistic thoughts occur … the understanding is when we return to God.

I honestly think that math has got you caught up in proof-logic … you and I are specks like Capolan said … we are not capable of understanding … Pure sciene is the breeding ground of atheism … natural science is the cure. You can not know everything … don’t burden yourself with the thought that you can in this life time.

That doesn’t mean that you should not advance your knowledge gain insight to the workings of nature or the theoretical and share your findings.

BTW if you do come up with something Nobel worthy … hook me up … I may need the million to pay for a cure for cancer.

Logic would state to throw both out or keep both … He does and doesn’t exist at the same time.

I can easily believe in something that you can’t disprove, since I can never prove the other. Rational.

Personally, I just thought you might know the name of Schrodinger’s cat. I thought its name was God.

With so many religions and so many variations of “god”, how can one be right and true? What about the other “gods”? Out of the thousands of different religions that have existed in the history of the world, your god is the only true god? Thats absurd. To me, religion is merely another way to control the masses. Whether or not god is real, it sure seems to work.

One of my questions concerns heaven. I am a good person, I help people, I treat others as I would like to be treated and just because i dont belive in god I dont get to go to the happy afterlife? What a bunch of crap.

This is the Pandora’s box of discussions by the way. It will never end.

That doesn’t look like respect to me.

My biggest complaint about science and in turn atheism (more often than not they go hand in hand — although interestingly enough many scientists are NOT atheists according to the Academy of Sciences) is that it is asserted by people that science and math is the language of the universe. Think about that for a second. A infintesimal speck has declared “we know the language of the universe”. That is like an ant observing his world and declaring that he understands an internal combustion engine. The thought is a bit insane. The idea that an ant could even comprehend a internal combustion engine…its that comprehension (and comprehension vs. conception are important distinctions. you can conceive anything – but to comprehend it is another facet entirely)

Now, lets get the first objection out of the way — yes they claim knowledge, they may “Say” theory – however the moment you argue this point that theory suddenly loses all flexibility, that so called “theory” suddenly and without warning becomes “fact” and they hold it in front of you like a scepter – beating you over the head with their “theory”.

I’ve argued with LOTS of rationalists and atheists – and they love to weasel word around with the the concept of theory. if you back them into a corner – suddenly its a theory open to change through observation, but when they argue their point it becomes a fact. Its an amazing thing to observe how it changes so often depending upon the needs of the conversation. The most close minded people are the ones on either end of the spectrum. The pure rationalists vs. the Fundamentalists. They’re the same! they both preach a dogma that they have faith in, and they both are terrified of their faith letting them down.

So now – if I bypass math and science and their rational construct (which is such a limiting box it’s unbelieveable!) what are we left with?

We have a bit of a void now, and that’s scary. We get to where Hume was – and realize that everything we know could be wrong! wow. that’s powerful stuff right there. So what do we do now? Do we turn to eastern thinking, the buddha nature?…do we look to the middle east for answers from their mystics? Existenitalism? witchdoctors? hypnotherapy? How do we fill this void…how do we suddenly not doubt?

The thing is we have to shrug our shoulders a bit, realize that this is all fine and good but these thoughts won’t change the fact that in order to continue on living this life you need to keep moving forward – regardless of your beliefs or lack of them.

my question that I live with is this. Why do we assume that there is “an answer”? in fact why do we even assume there is a question to be answered? For all our intellectualism, we all could just be waiting for Godot.

Now, another thing you totally misinterpret, or more probably about what I just wasn’t clear enough : when I say you chose to lie to yourself because the lie is cool. There was a total misundersanting about the word cool. It is probably my fault, the world may have a different meaning in my language, so I seem to be misusing it. I meant pleasant. This has nothing to do with appearance, social acceptance or anything like that. I just meant that between a rational reasonning and an intuition, you chose the one you like most.

I am sorry that being a christian is not easy in your school. But why don’t you keep it to yourself ? A belief is a belief, why do you need to publicly act it out, and how exactly ? I don’t think that anything you DO in school involves being an atheist or a christian. I am not saying you should be ashamed of who you are, but as far as I know, it should not affect your school life.

And finally, I can’t prevent myself from quoting this, but :
“I believe in God because im strong enough to know that my intuition wouldnt deceive me”…
Many people were strong enough to know that their intuition wouldn’t deceive them. Earth flatness, it’s position in the universe, nature of matter, nature of light, evolution… I dare you to find only one case where intuition was opposing rational reasonning, and where it turned out intuition was right. I really don’t understand how anyone can ignore the overwhelming evidence that intuition keeps deceiving us, each and every time it opposes rational reasonning. You obviously call that being strong, I call that being deluded. Whatever.

Oh, and finally : when you say to an atheist that you are praying for him, it feels just like you would probably feel if I said : “I am masterbating about fucking you in the ass”. Everybody believes what he wants, everybody lives his life like he wants. But don’t involve atheists in your beliefs. Draw the line, kid. You need to be able to do that and YOU will soften people’s heart.

P.S : My previous post has been edited because of my misuse of tags, and apparently changing my name to Yata was part of the process. So Yata and Yat are the same person